Crafting a Lasting Music Career with Mindset and Strategy

Matt Ebso: 0:07

Hey there, welcome to the podcast. I'm thrilled to introduce you to After the Master, a musician's guide. I'm your host, matt Ebso, a multimedia producer with a decade of experience collaborating with independent musicians and artists, from music to videos and all kinds of content. My journey has exposed me to a recurring theme the intersection of art and business. Imagine this An artist pours their heart and soul into crafting the perfect song.

Matt Ebso: 0:35

They refine it, seek feedback and polish it until it shines. Finally, they step into the studio, working with the best producer they can afford, and create something truly remarkable. The track undergoes mixing and mastering and it's ready for the world. But here's the twist. Doubt starts to creep in. As they've heard the song countless times, worry sets in about how it will be received. Eager to share their creation, they rush to release it. They upload it to streaming platforms, share it on social media and wait.

Matt Ebso: 1:06

The response is positive, but not overwhelming. Close friends and family show love, but the broader traction they hoped for remains elusive. Despite investing their time, effort and lots of money, they're left wondering what went wrong. This is what I've come to call the now what problem or conundrum? A dilemma that affects many talented artists. It's not the quality of the music that's lacking. It's the business savvy, the strategy to navigate the complexities beyond the creative process. I've seen this unfold countless times and it's time to address it. I've talked to musicians who've been through this cycle and they've felt the frustration. That's why I'm here, armed with insights and solutions. During the first half of 2022, I had conversations with experts from every corner of the music industry. I've captured these dialogues and this podcast is the culmination of their wisdom. Life threw me a few curveballs along the way, causing a delay in the project, but here we are in the winter of 2024, reigniting this venture. I felt compelled to return to this podcast, inspired by the inquiries of several guests featured in it and others who heard about the project along the way. So it's time to share the wealth of advice that's been collecting digital dust and sitting on virtual shelves. The journey continues and I'm thrilled to have you along.

Matt Ebso: 2:24

As you listen to this initial season of episodes, you might notice a few outdated references, but the bulk of the content remains remarkably relevant for aspiring musicians in 2023 and beyond. So welcome to the show. Your presence means the world to me. Together, let's take your music career to the next level. Before we kick off a quick heads up about the audio. In this episode. We hit a little snag with the primary mic, but, fear not, we had a trusty backup, saving the day. This particular episode sounds a little bit roomy as a result, but episode two and beyond sound crisp and clear. So stick with us.

Matt Ebso: 2:59

In this debut episode, I'm joined by Suzanne, or Suz, Paulinski, better known as the rock star advocate. She's a powerhouse mindset coach for music entrepreneurs. I know just how awesome she is at what she does because, after we recorded this episode together, I hired her for a coaching session and I found her process to be incredibly insightful for my own career in music. I'm stoked to launch this podcast with this particular conversation because I believe there's no better way to start than by setting your mind on the right path for a flourishing music career. So, without further ado, let's dive into my conversation with Suze.

Matt Ebso: 3:40

Hey, I'm Matt Epso. I'm here at Clover Leaf Audio Visual. I'm interviewing Suzanne Polinsky. Suzanne is a mindset and productivity coach, the founder of the rock star advocate, helping music industry professionals reach their goals with custom goal setting and time management solutions, with a bachelor of science in music industry and a master's in psychology, while finishing a master's in social work, suzanne guides her clients to clarity on their next steps, while coaching them on maintaining a healthy work-life balance. She's the author of the rock star life planner, a tool for creatives to find focus in their daily lives. When she's not binging law and order episodes inside her tiny home with her dog Charlie, she can be found working with clients or publishing her productivity tips in her many guest posts for thrive, rising tide, sonic bids, tunecore and soundfly. Suzanne has shared her lessons learned in over 100 episodes of her now retired podcast, the musicpreneur mindset, with more content coming soon under the redefine the hustle podcast on YouTube. Welcome so good to meet you.

Matt Ebso: 4:48

So I viewed your website and I saw one quote that really jumped out at me and I wanted to explore the idea a little bit. You said I realized the music industry as we know it is broken. I want to know what it is that you saw that made you realize that the music industry is broken.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 5:08

Yeah, oh man, so many over the last 20 years, and I can't believe I've reached 20 years to live to tell the story. So that's great. But I just finished watching the Janet Jackson documentary and I watched it thinking, listen, I'm not a performer. I had my days in my acapella group but that was about it. I've never been just emboldened and impassioned to be on stage with people watching me. So I'm sure there are certain things that I don't relate to with artists on a certain level. But I watched that type of documentary and I think there's a masochistic tendency to it because for people to watch what somebody like her or her brothers have been through, or somebody like a Britney Spears, and walk away from those stories thinking I want this, like did you listen to what was in the documentary? Like do you know what they've been through? You know it's not an easy career.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 6:04

But another thing that often gets jumbled and people don't really realize is that's less than 1% of the music industry. There are hundreds and hundreds of other pathways and careers out there that don't require you to end up in a conservatorship or have drug problems or be paranoid with the paparazzi outside your house. You don't need that Now. There are some people that want the fame. I always tell my clients do you want fame or do you want a career in music? They are vastly two separate paths, because if you are going for fame, I have much easier ways for you to get there than being a musician. That is not if you're just going for fame. There's plenty of other options out there that will probably get you there faster. If you're going down this path because you want to make money from your music and you want to do music for a living, you don't need millions and millions of fans to do it. And if many of my clients ask themselves which I have them do and then they come to this answer they don't really want that anyway.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 7:10

And so the music industry. I say it's broken because I don't know if it was ever a hole, but it perpetuates this very tunneled, singular vision of what it means to quote, unquote, make it. And it is very sadistic. I mean I started off at the major labels I talk about on my About page how the music industry almost killed me. It is relentless, it is unforgiving and it doesn't promote well-being and health and mental health and mental well-being, emotional well-being, because it doesn't care.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 7:46

And when I left that world, the music industry cog, so to speak. I had to go through a lot of therapy and it was a lot of oh my goodness. My dream is dead If I left the labels. And I left that almost like this fame kind of bubble where you get to work, where I was working with Sia and Fat Boy Slim's label and got to do all these really cool things and meet some people I've idolized Really amazing things.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 8:13

I started at 18 years old and then to realize, oh my goodness, I'm out of it, I'm blacklisted in the music industry because I left the labels. No, there was a whole other world. That's been 20 years and majority of my time has been outside of the labels, making a living for myself and helping people in this industry, doing things my way and putting my health first and getting a full night's rest. It took me a while to undo a lot of the myths and the practices that the music industry taught me so long way to say. That's why I feel it's broken and I think we have a lot of work to do to teach musicians how to undo those stories.

Matt Ebso: 8:55

Couldn't have said it better myself, and you're absolutely right, too, that it perpetuates this sort of masochistic attitude. One thing I've noticed personally is the way that the entertainment industry portrays how the entertainment industry works is incredibly misleading, which is a little strange to me, because I feel like it almost does a disservice to itself. You see it all the time in movies, where there's a girl on a guitar in her bedroom, she posts something or she plays in front of one person and suddenly the next scene she's playing on a stage and it's fun to 300,000 people. That's how it works, right? That's all you need. You don't need one person to discover you.

Matt Ebso: 9:35

In some cases that happens, but I think so many people are fixated on that idea that that is how they need to do things. They need to find somebody else to discover them, and that might work for some people, but that's definitely not the path for everyone. So you're helping your clients to undo some of those notions that they may have about the music industry and success and what it means to be a successful musician in the industry, right? So I've noticed this now what problem Musicians get done crafting the perfect song in the studio. They get done making this awesome video. And then they go now what? And this is where some of those preconceived notions start to come in. They're like okay, well, I need to do all these things that I think I know a lot about, but maybe don't really. So what are you doing to help your clients solve that? Now, what problem?

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 10:32

So my approach to productivity and just to goal setting in general is it's not a one size fits all. It's a very personal journey. Some of us have to contend with different hurdles, such as ADHD or chronic illnesses, or some have kids and that has its own demands and things to balance out, and some still have day jobs. So everybody has their own stuff, and so when I work with clients, we really just start to break it down. One of my first things is always let's hit pause, let's take a minute, because I think we're just programmed to just keep pushing, keep pushing. I'll figure it out. I just got to keep going and, yes, you will figure it out, but you'll figure it out a lot sooner. If you make educated guesses and to have educated guesses you have to be educated on the data that's in front of you you have to take some time to reflect on that. So when you finish the music, if you finish a piece of content, you've done your part. Well, first, is it your content or were you collaborating with somebody else? If you were collaborating, what did you agree to do? Is your part done and you go on to the next thing, or do you have to help promote it? Are you a work for hire or are you a partner in this? What is the situation? So sometimes I have clients that don't even take a moment to identify what the situation is, if you stop to think. Well, no, I'm a work for hire, I did what I was contracted to do. Okay, on to the next thing. If it's your project, or your part of its success, and who hears and sees it, then okay, yeah, what content are you going to create to promote it? How much time do you need to create that content? How many posts do you ideally want to have? And also, what's your goal here? Are you trying to get X amount of new followers? Are you trying to engage the followers you already have, which is a goal that a lot of people pass right on by? They always want to go to the I need more followers. Well, I always say focus on new followers when you're already getting engagement from your current ones. If you're not getting any sort of engagement or comments or feedback or shares or reposts from your current audience, spend some time loving them up because, just like you said, musicians like oh, I played a show for a few people in a coffee house, so now they're looking for a person to discover them and it's like no, you've been discovered by those three or four people. Go back and shake their hand or rub elbows or whatever it is, but get their info, follow them back, comment on their stuff Creative by example and educate your audience of how to support you. A lot of my colleagues who were musicians.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 13:18

I always got to give a shout out to Cheryl Engelhardt. She always does such an amazing job. Right now she's writing an album on Amtrak. She's taking Amtrak cross-country and creating a new age album, and so she's telling her fans. She's one of the best people out there when it comes to educating fans.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 13:36

Hey, this is what I'm doing. Hey, this is how you can best help me. Hey, if you want to help, there's the free version, there's the affordable version and then there's the super fan, your amazing version. So pick a lane and they're all valuable. So tell your friends. That's the free way. You know it's like literally mapping it out for them so that they can do what you want them to do. Basically, it's just breaking things down and figuring out. Well, this is my goal. What do I need? If I need fan engagement, I'm not getting it. How can I get it. And if you don't know some of those tips that I just told you, then the next step is to go out and watch podcasts like yours and look up things on YouTube and find ways to up your engagement. So it's all about just setting a goal and working backwards until you're at a spot where you're like, oh, I have what I need to do that, let me just go do that. And that's really the process. What it comes down to. It just looks different for everybody.

Matt Ebso: 14:35

So it sounds like one of the key things you help people to figure out is, first of all, what's the goal Right like? What are you doing? What would you say an average musician that you work with with the typical goals they're coming in with? What does that first session look like?

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 14:53

Yeah, a lot of. It is just kind of undoing the broken mindsets that they have around what they're even capable of. Because, again, this industry does have a way of perpetuating those myths of if you're a musician, you gotta be poor unless you have a label. Listen, is it difficult? Yeah, so is any career out there? Because you're not building a single release. You're building a career. This is not about how do I launch my first single. It's about how do I lay the groundwork to build a career.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 15:23

So if that's what your hope is and you have a day job right now, I spend a lot of my first sessions with musicians who might have day jobs with, okay, let's learn how to not hate your day job because you're spending a lot of time there. And if you spend the whole time hating it, now you've come home from that or you've stopped working at that, while you're already at home and it's time to work on your music career, and they're like I don't know why I'm so tired. I didn't do anything today at work. I'm like yes, but all your energy went into hating that you're at your day job, so that's where it went.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 15:58

So the first sessions are usually spent monitoring where their energy has gone and how can we reframe that and redirect that energy so that you can get clarity on what your goals are and how to break them down, because this stuff isn't rocket science but it does require open eyes and an open mind to what's possible. So there's a lot of cleaning up and cleaning off the debris of the scarcity mindset there's no money in it, there's no time, I don't have the energy, I'm not good enough. The comparison paralysis. There's a lot to unpack there that we have been conditioned to take in from all aspects of our culture, of the industry. All of that so that's usually step one is undoing a lot of the harmful mindset.

Matt Ebso: 16:53

And then, what are some of the things you work through as you go through the life cycle of these sessions?

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 16:59

So then, after we're clear on what mindset really is and what it takes to have a good mindset because that really is like 80% of the work in terms of the effort you have to put forward then we really work on where does your time go? Now we know where your energy goes, but where does the time go? And, like I said, it's different for everybody. So I do have a free time blocking tutorial on my YouTube page, rockstar Advoke. It's a half hour training and there are worksheets there that you can print out the link in the description.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 17:30

A couple of years ago I did this interview on CD Baby's podcast and we really just took apart the math. You don't have 24 hours in the day. You're lucky if you have eight, and it's really not eight, it's probably four. So if you have four hours in the day, how are you going to use them? What is that going to look like? And again, it's different for everybody. Some people might need more time on their mindset and if they have a chronic illness, really spending that time on your health and wellbeing, the work will get done, but we have to adjust our expectations for how long it takes and we have to think about sustainability and not just let me push through and try to get it done as fast as possible, because your career is going to be over and done with before you know it, because your body's gonna be like no, no, no, no, not happening.

Matt Ebso: 18:21

You know it's interesting. You mentioned adjusting your expectation for timeline. I was chatting with Brad Dunerson, who's a sales representative at CopyCats Media, and he was talking about how one of the biggest mistakes musicians commonly make is they're so excited about the thing they just made. They're like, okay, now I'm just gonna put it out there. He talked about how the first thing you have to do is tame your excitement. It's good, you're excited, be excited, have a plan, and so it sounds like a big part of what you do is you help people to really develop that plan, and obviously everybody's plan is different. It's gonna depend on their goals, but you're gonna help to connect the dots between where they are now and what those goals are, and obviously those things can change over time.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 19:07

Well, and just as you said, they skip a bunch of steps, like getting in the right mindset, like getting clear on how much time you actually have, before you start saying, oh, I'm gonna post every day and I'm gonna do an Instagram live every other day and I'm gonna well, do you have that time? Like you haven't stopped to think if that's actually doable for where you are right now, really taking that step back and not letting your tasks drive your strategy. You have to be in the driver's seat and say, okay, here's when I'm gonna do that task, here's when this is gonna get done. I'm gonna give myself a buffer room because I've never done this before, so it might take me longer than I think, and it probably will.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 19:45

It's just slowing down, but that actually speeds you up, and I say this as somebody who, for 10 years, was told to slow down and I refused to listen and then my body made me listen and what I could get done now in four hours is mind-blowing, because I do it with greater intention and I don't have to work 16 hour days. If I'm getting ready for a big launch, will I have a day or two where I'm really head down working? Sure, but that's not sustainable. That's no longer my every day as it once was, because I know that's not sustainable. So that's a big part of the strategy is just really understanding what's able to get done in a day's time.

Matt Ebso: 20:30

It really is about just getting organized Beyond the mindset. In your opinion, what is the most important personality trait or strength someone would need in order to be successful as a full-time musician?

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 20:46

That's an amazing question and I always say embrace the mess. You have to be a person who's okay with mess and I say this as a type A born and raised in New Yorker who's like what are you talking about? I don't like mess. Let's go. We gotta clean this up, we gotta get this. Everything's gotta be organized. I live in a tiny house. I can't have mess. It irks me. But as a business owner and we're all business owners, all musicians you don't have to have filed your business quite yet, you don't have to be there. But you are an entrepreneur and so as an entrepreneur, yes, it takes resilience and all that stuff, but you don't need so much resilience if you just already embrace that it's gonna be messy. Sometimes, when we fight the mess or the uncertainty or the falling down or the failures, which are really just learning opportunities, we feel like we have to be so resilient to bounce back from that. But I have found that the more I just embrace.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 21:46

Actually, I don't know what I was doing in that launch or I don't really know what I'm doing for the next launch, but I know that I wanna get here, so I'm just going to do my best. I'm going to ask a lot of questions. I'm going to implement what I've learned and I'm going to learn from it. It's not about I'm going to knock this out of the park and succeed and this is exactly how it's going to look. I'm just going to figure it out. I'm not going to throw spaghetti at the wall with no intention, but I'm going to figure out here's what I know, here's what I'm not sure of, but here's the help I can get, and then I'm going to give it a shot. And then I'm going to learn from what I've the new data I have. I'm going to give it another shot and learn from the new data and give it another shot.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 22:29

I teach planning for a living and I always say the best way to ship-proof your plan is to understand that plans are not set in stone and they're not made for you to predict the future. The only only purpose that a plan holds is to give you enough eyesight to take the next step, and then you take the next step. You should be adjusting your plan, and then you take the next step and then you adjust your plan. So it's not about oh, I was wrong or this took longer than I thought. I suck, I can't plan. No, you can't mess up planning. Like you planned and then you learned, so now you can improve your plan. The only way to fail at planning is to just not even try to do it.

Matt Ebso: 23:14

That's really true. Are you familiar with the author, Mike McCallowix?

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 23:19

Yes, love him.

Matt Ebso: 23:20

Ah, he has this description of working towards your goals as tacking, like when you're sailing, which actually really always started to resonate with me recently because I'm learning a little bit about sailing the idea that if you're traveling upwind in a sailboat, you can't go directly upwind. It's physically impossible. The boat is in a zone called the no-sail zone. You can't sail at the wind. So what you have to do is you have to do these 45-degree angles to the wind and then periodically tack or turn to cross the wind again. But you have to keep that point on the horizon as your goal and then just slowly zigzag your way towards it. It's this zigzagging with the end in sight, but life doesn't really allow you to go straight upwind. You kind of have to adjust as you go.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 24:12

Right, and that's the other reason. Like, plan for four hours in a day, don't plan for 24 hours. That's another thing that artists do all the time and people in general, is we put 24 hours' worth of tasks on our to-do list and then we have four hours to get them done, and then at the end of the day, oh so lazy today, or oh I didn't do anything today, and say no, you just did two out of 100 tasks because you only had 2% of the time you thought you had. I always say like you're not lazy, you're just bad at math.

Matt Ebso: 24:42

Aren't we all.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 24:44

Right, this is what happens when we weren't paying attention to math class because we were thinking about band practice after school.

Matt Ebso: 24:50

Oh, you started a chord with me there.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 24:54

But now we know better and now we can say, yeah, you know what. You're right, internet, I don't have the same 24 hours as Beyonce. Stop shaming me into thinking I do, and so I'm not going to try to perform like Beyonce when I don't have that team or that situation or the money or the resources. This is what I'm dealing with. I might have two kids and a day job and a dog, and I'd like some friends to stay in my life and guess what? They don't stick around when you don't stick around for them. So you've got to make time.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 25:25

The beautiful thing that took me years to really trust and accept is when you give yourself less time and we call this Parkinson's Law it will actually get done. And so when you've given yourself these 24 hours, you burn out, you feel exhausted because you get distracted. You allow yourself to get distracted by crap that doesn't matter. And so when you're limited just like new parents who are not on sleep and they manage to do like 50 million things at once that's because they have to. They have very limited time and it just has to get done and it's only the most important stuff. That's it, and that's how we win. Not about getting everything done, but getting the most important things done, and then keep it moving.

Matt Ebso: 26:12

And just taking the next step, one step at a time.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 26:15

Exactly, yeah, exactly.

Matt Ebso: 26:16

On that note, what is the most important lesson you've learned over your career?

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 26:22

Oh heavy. Most important lesson I've learned is to steal Marie Forleo's quote everything is figureoutable To just trust it. Again. As a workaholic type A personality, I just sat like this for 10 years just speaking like, oh my God, is it going to happen? Did it? Like, what about now? What about now? Always just worrying, worrying about money. Where is it going to come from? How's it going to be? What should I charge? What if this doesn't happen? And I get it? We are conditioned to just worry that money is finite, that there's no money in music, and still, to this day, I can feel my back get up and say, oh goodness, okay, I need, I need to get more clients again. I need to get more clients. Just trusting it happens.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 27:07

Listen, facebook ads I'm sure are great. There's Google ads I don't know anything about them. I'm sure they have their purpose and they're very helpful for people. But if you don't know any of that stuff like I don't or if you don't have it in your budget or in your ability to make the time to learn all that stuff, just tell people what you do. Hey, I'm working on a song. Right now it's not done, but that's what I'm up to. What are you up to? Or hey, my song is out right now. It'd be great if you downloaded it from band camp or shared it on your socials or took a listen and just told me what you thought about it so that I could quote you and use it in another post. Any of these things is just about telling people.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 27:51

The minute I go on Instagram and I say, hey, here's my group coaching program or here's my weekly planner that I created. If you're interested, here's the link. Oh, my goodness, I get a sale. Who would have thunk, yes, if I want a hundred sales at once, I could go get an ad and reach more people, but it doesn't need all that effort. I don't need hundreds and thousands of clients to sustain my living and to grow my company. I work with like 20 clients a month more in my group consulting, but if you take the group consulting out, I don't even need 20. I need like five clients a month to grow my business and to pay my team and to do what I need to do. So why am I going to chase 10,000 Instagram followers? So you've got to figure out what you really need. And another long-winded answer to say I think my most important lesson has been to learn that and stop chasing the numbers. That took me a long time to trust that, like it comes, just breathe.

Matt Ebso: 28:55

You're probably familiar, then, with the thousand true fan theory.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 28:58

I am familiar with it.

Matt Ebso: 28:59

yes, what you're describing sounds very similar, then it's like identifying what you really need as an entrepreneur, in your case, or as a musician. For those who are not familiar with it, listening the thousand true fan theory is the idea that you really only need a thousand true fans of your music who are willing to give you money for your music to sustain a healthy lifestyle. You can perform your music and make a decent living. In your case, as an entrepreneur, you can have five to twenty clients and be comfortable. Would it be cool to have thousands of clients? Yeah Right.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 29:30

Would I have a life?

Matt Ebso: 29:32

Right, how much Suzanne is there to go around?

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 29:35

Right, Right. Thank you for bringing up the theory, because it is really helpful. If you only have three hundred followers right now and you're not maybe at a thousand yet, Love up those three hundred. That's the other thing. I go to conferences and somebody will bring up that theory, and so then the musicians they take the wrong conclusion from that. So if they're sitting in the audience with only three hundred, they're like all right, I got to get to a thousand and I'll see it on their face and I'll call them out. I'll say wait a minute, hold on before we move forward. Are you thinking right now, how do I get a thousand followers? And they're like, yeah, wrong question to be asking. The next question is how do I love up to three hundred? I have, because they'll get you to a thousand. You don't need to search for the fans. It's like dating, right, it's like somebody's like oh hi, you seem really interesting.

Matt Ebso: 30:21

I would like to talk to you.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 30:22

You're like, oh God, there's nobody here to date, like there's nobody around. Well, you just turned your back on somebody that was interested. Now how do they feel? Right? So if you just turn and smile and said thank you so much and maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't, but the fact is, stop looking, start paying attention to what's already happening and those fans, when they feel that you've treated them well, will invest in you, will tell other people those are your super fans, those are the three hundred super fans that are going to get you the thousand middle fans. Right, like? It's about taking that information and drawing the right conclusions from it.

Matt Ebso: 31:02

Sure, it would be like hearing the story. This is like a children's story, but like the three billy goats, gruff, you know, the grass is greener on the other side. Right, it'd be like hearing that story and going well, I need the green grass, the grass is just fine, right here. Be, here where you are, where you're at, recognize where you're at presently and do the most you can with the current situation.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 31:25

Right, and that'll stop what I call the fraud talk. You know, clients come to me all the time. I know what you're saying and I want to do it. But then I go on Instagram and these people are doing it and they're already doing the type of music I'm doing and all this comparison paralysis. But when you go back to that same theory so you just need a thousand, so believe me, they're out there. And guess what, when I was a nineties kid and I love R&B, I wasn't at the store being like, look at the brandy CD or the Monica CD, because I can only be a fan of one. And I got both of them. And I got the 20 Braxton and the Whitney Houston and all the R&B because I love R&B. You know, we're not Ziploc bags versus glad bags. That might have competition. There's no such thing in music. So when you can embrace that thousand fan theory, you can let go of the competition. This doesn't exist.

Matt Ebso: 32:16

Oh, I love it. You're speaking to me. You're speaking directly to my soul too, because there is that temptation to see what everyone else is doing and then think that you have to do the same thing and be part of that red ocean where everyone's fighting for space, but in reality you can just kind of do your own thing.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 32:38

Yeah, I mean, even I get it. Still, you know it'll creep up because social media sucks. We allow it to creep up on us when we're feeling vulnerable and then I'll just repeat to myself I only need five clients and that's it. And I serve my audience better if they come to me and I know a colleague is better fit for them. I am not the type of person that. No, just work with me and I'll figure it out. None of them. We don't get the best results. I much rather give you to somebody else. If somebody else wants to teach mindset and productivity, great, we need more of it. I can't possibly help people enough. So embrace your fellow electronic musicians or your fellow R&B singers. Embrace it, work together. You're not going to elbow each other out of opportunities the way you think you will.

Matt Ebso: 33:28

I love it. I love it. So succinct, that's a sound bite right there. So you looked to the past. You see that the way the music industry has been and is broken. Where do you see all that going in the future? Do you see any positive changes in the industry? Do you see it becoming more complex?

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 33:46

I am hopeful you know I have my cynical days but I am hopeful, I think, for musicians really embracing it and understanding it is that the fans are the gatekeepers. Labels are a bank. You don't need them. I'm not saying they don't have a purpose anymore. I have a special place in my heart for labels, but they're not the drivers. It is a fan world. It's also an experience world.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 34:11

So the goal is no longer I got to get on the radio, it's on the app, on the commercial, on the ending credits of a student independent film, on a video game, anything. There is music on the podcast. Music is such an experience and it is everywhere. And now you have the accessibility with LinkedIn, with other social media, to connect with these people who make those decisions. So, thinking about where your music can best be served and having your fans be the gateway for it, and asking them how they like to listen to your music, where they listen to your music, under what circumstances do they play your music, to really get a full understanding of where you should be putting your focus. It's not always oh, I got to play the stadiums or the coffee houses. If you don't like touring, you don't need to do that there's plenty of other things to do with your music.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 35:07

For people like myself on the business end, I think the future is really in really understanding that everybody's human Artists are not commodities, they're not dollar signs. Pay them what they're worth and when I say pay them what they're worth, I mean that's also a sticky subject but pay for the value of what they've given your audience. Make sure that they are compensated. And I have started to see, especially with my friends in film and other entertainment industries, more of a concern for having a mental health practitioner on site. I'm working with more agencies now, which is really exciting. I'm not yet licensed. I'm going for my license but working as a mental health advocate to make sure that employees are not burning out like I did, to make sure that businesses are respecting the end of business day for their employees and not taking advantage of the work at home situation. I think more advocacy work is being done, that I am hopeful for a healthier industry ahead, so that is exciting.

Matt Ebso: 36:12

Bright, hopeful vision for the future. In the past there's been a lot of stigma about the mental health side of well everything life, and we have to recognize that. Work is just one part of it. Music, entertainment is one part of it. Everything is a balance Work, life, sleep.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 36:35

Stop the sleep, shame people yeah.

Matt Ebso: 36:39

I want to ask you if you had one piece of advice to leave our listeners with today, what would it?

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 36:47

be Just be kind to yourself and like. It sounds so trite and I know we're all sick of hearing like, but we're in a pandemic, but we are. And Aside from the global pandemic, we're also in a society that moves so fast and demands so much unrealistically that you have to be your own advocate. So it starts with you. You can't expect other people to treat you with respect or respect your boundaries if you're not doing that. And I speak from way too Much experience on that. And when we do respect our boundaries, other people kind of fall in line and it's pretty magical. We don't think it will happen, but people like boundaries. They feel good about knowing what your boundaries are. So be kind to yourself. Say no, it will all work out.

Matt Ebso: 37:32

Hmm, I love that. We all should say no more often. We all feel bad about saying no, but you're absolutely right. Again, you're speaking to me. I have to learn these lessons myself before I can really help anybody else with that. Just a couple final questions for you. What one question do you wish I would have asked you, and how would you have answered it?

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 37:54

I can see why your friends with Ross, because you guys are really good at the questions. One quite, I mean, I don't know the questions were so good. I guess like what my favorite law and order episode is, because you know nobody, I don't get asked enough about law and order.

Matt Ebso: 38:14

What's your favorite episode?

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 38:16

Oh man, it's gotta be season seven now, for people don't know there's 23 seasons. So believe me, my love goes deep. I thank my boyfriend for his patience. Season seven Lou Diamond Phillips guest starred, and it really Olivia Benson and Elliot Stabler. They weren't partners for a little while after that episode. It really tested their partnership. So we're still getting over it as a fandom. It's still Elliot Stabler's back and they're still working through that moment in time. So I just had to share that with the world. Go watch it if you haven't, it's good.

Matt Ebso: 38:50

I love it. I love it. Where could people find you online?

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 38:54

I'm always on Instagram, like to an unhealthy degree. So, rock star Advil, come find me and I'd love to say hi.

Matt Ebso: 39:02

Do you have any links You'd like for me to include?

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 39:05

sure, my Instagram, which is Instagram comm forward slash rock star Advil and my website is the rockstar Advocate comm, which you have found, and if they want to find the planner, it's the website address forward slash planner. Yeah, they can find all they need there.

Matt Ebso: 39:23

Cool, all right. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been an absolute blast chatting with you.

Suzanne "Suz" Paulinksi: 39:30

You as well. Thanks so much for having me and thanks to Ross for putting us in touch. This is great.

Matt Ebso: 39:38

Thank you so much for tuning into episode one of after the master a musicians guide. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. If you want to connect with sews, check out the links in the show notes on your podcast app. Remember to hit the subscribe button to be notified when we release upcoming episodes. For more behind the scenes and exclusive content, follow us on Instagram at after the master got thoughts to share or a killer guest suggestion. I love feedback. Shoot an email to Matt@afterthemaster. com. You can also drop me a line via call or text at 612-712- 6708. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, stay in tune with your dreams and I'll catch you on the flip side.