Latoya Cooper's 4-Phase Plan to Master Your Music Marketing

Speaker 1: 0:07

Hello there, podcast listeners. This is episode 3 of After the Master a musician's guide. I'm your host, matt Ebsoe, and today's conversation is one you won't want to miss. I had the pleasure of chatting with the incredible Latoya Cooper, also known as the songstress. She's a powerhouse in the music industry, a successful entrepreneur and a champion for women in music, especially women of color. Latoya shares her journey of shifting her business model, finding her superpower and taking her music career from surviving to thriving. Trust me, her insights are pure gold, so grab your headphones, sit back and get ready to be inspired. Let's dive in. Hey everybody, I'm here today interviewing Latoya Cooper. Hello.

Speaker 2: 1:02

Latoya. Hello Matt, I am so excited to be here with you today.

Speaker 1: 1:07

I am excited to be chatting also, so for everyone tuning in. Latoya is also known as the songstress. She's the founder of Music Meets the Boardroom, the number one platform for A-list elite indie artist entrepreneurs. Latoya is also a successful self-sustained businesswoman with a special love for supporting the unique experiences and needs women in music face throughout their music career, especially women of color. In 2021, she became a best-selling author after releasing Simple Method Smarter Decisions, the first and only safety resource to hit the market for women in music.

Speaker 1: 1:40

She is an accomplished recording and touring artist entrepreneur-ess and has been featured on Essencecom as the artist to watch, as well as Good Morning Texas. As a music industry expert, she spent the past decade in the project management space and holds a master's of business administration. When Latoya is not performing, she uses her extensive know-how to help fellow artists shift their business model from surviving to thriving, by finding their superpower in their gift, nurturing their entrepreneurial traits and building a clear plan of action toward achieving their biggest goals and getting results. Wowza, so welcome Latoya. My first question for you is when do you sleep?

Speaker 2: 2:18

You know what? Here's a crazy thing I wasn't, and I ended up getting sick and the universe slowed me down. So now I don't move around so much. Instead, I work smart. So I'm so happy that we're having this conversation today, because I'll be able to share a lot of what I've learned in the process of being forced to slow down and to be more effective throughout my day.

Speaker 1: 2:42

Awesome. So I guess, what does that look like?

Speaker 2: 2:45

Well, you know, it looks like taking a step back. I got diagnosed with MS about three or four months ago and that was a major reality check because I love what I do and I did not want to stop doing what I'm doing. And so I had to step back and look at different business models and say, hey, what is the smartest long term business model? How can I position my business to continue to grow, to scale and to continue to exist? Really, I had to do a lot of revamping and things like that and taking away stuff, just removing things and just saying I'm not doing that anymore and saying no more often. So I say no a lot now.

Speaker 1: 3:26

Well, I envy your ability to say no. It's a really hard thing to do, but it sounds like you've done a lot of kind of taking the machete to the woods and trimming back and getting just to the core of what you really need to do to be the best version of yourself. So that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 3:39

Yes, I totally agree with you on that, and I think as entrepreneurs, we all at some point go through that. I feel like it's the stage that happens a little bit before people become super successful. I don't know if you notice that usually people who are really successful what they do, they're able to pinpoint one thing that really stands out amongst all the other things that it took for them to get to that point. And it's a journey you know people share with you what that looks like, but you don't really know until you experience it yourself.

Speaker 1: 4:08

Well, it kind of seems like you've started to pinpoint what that thing is for you. So I saw on your Instagram bio you said I take black women from artist to CEO Bam. Now that's an elevator pitch if I've ever heard one. So what exactly does that mean?

Speaker 2: 4:23

Yeah, because I was actually working with my business strategist and we were trying to come up with, okay, what is this simple, straightforward mission statement going to be? That's what we came up with, because music meets the boardroom is a mix between artistry and holding your own in a corporate space. I feel like that is so important for artists if you want to be able to elevate. When we look at artists who are super successful, they don't only embrace their artistry, but they also embrace the business side of their craft, right? Whether they like it or not, they still study it. They understand it enough to be able to make sound and smart decisions on behalf of themselves and in the best interest of their art, which is their asset, right? That's what we do. We help create a space for artists to be able to explore that in a safe way where they can ask whatever questions they want and they have room to really grow in a way that's comfortable and progressive for them.

Speaker 1: 5:15

That's awesome. When did you start to refine some of these details?

Speaker 2: 5:19

It's been a process of years, because when I started music meets the boardroom, I started out as just offering workshops. That's all that it was, and I had no intentions of it really growing into a full-time business. But it's funny how the universe shows up for us and it has just grown into exactly that. Over the years I've had to refine it. It went from workshops to a conference and now it's into a membership program. So this year, actually, once I got sick, I had to kind of start to redefine it a little bit more as well. So that's the transition that you're kind of seeing right now and we're really on the end part of that. So we're cleaning up a few things, but we're going to be good here in the next couple weeks or something. Thank you At this point.

Speaker 2: 6:05

I'm a planner. I plan probably more than the average person, and then sometimes I get to the point where I realize, like Latoya, you got to stop planning. You literally just have to go. There's nothing else to plan, so just go do it, and then at that point you'll figure out the mistakes along the way.

Speaker 1: 6:21

Sure, you could plan for everything, but you just have to start walking down that path at a certain point. So you said you've been running music meets the board room. For like what? Seven years, Six, seven years.

Speaker 2: 6:32

That's seven years.

Speaker 1: 6:33

Okay, what inspired you to start that? And then, how did you get here from where you started?

Speaker 2: 6:40

So what inspired me to start music meets the board room. It was not planned at all. I myself was pursuing being a full-time singer-songwriter and I was working in a corporate space. I've worked with CEOs and executives my whole corporate life, so I'm very familiar with business operations and things like that and very comfortable with it.

Speaker 2: 7:01

And I'm also, of course, being a business graduate, and so as I was performing and things like that, a lot of artists would come to me and they were just so intrigued with how I was running my music business and they just wanted to know more, like how did you do that? How did you set this up? How are you managing two bands? How are you doing this stuff? How are you making money this way, or what have you? And so for me it was very natural, and so I would just share the information. But my mentor pulled me to the side one day at a show when he saw some artists really wanting to pick my brain and he's like do you see what's going on here? And I'm like no, what are you talking about? And he's like you have something here. You need to really grow this and look into a little bit more. And it was about two weeks later, I came up with Music Meets the Boardroom, and it just birthed from that point forward. And here we are today.

Speaker 1: 7:47

So what were some of the things that you had learned in your own musical journey that other people saw, that inspired them to start asking you? These questions then ultimately snowballed into a more structured format. So what were the things you learned that you found were helpful for other people and that they really wanted to know?

Speaker 2: 8:07

Believe it or not, it was the areas that I did not want to grow. I was terrified of it was mainly around leadership, especially with the music industry being more male dominated. I was not comfortable managing an all male band, like I felt like I was out of place. I'm a woman, I'm not supposed to be doing this stuff. How do you communicate effectively? You don't hurt the egos, like I was thinking of all this stuff and then also being organized and learning that people love to work with organized people. It makes their lives easier, it makes them less stressed.

Speaker 2: 8:44

So I made it a priority to be as organized as possible. I would have spreadsheets of the set list with the right key and the sheet music attached and the order of the songs and the timing of the songs, the location. I mean I had everything in a spreadsheet to where I could share it and the musicians literally did not have to ask me any questions until showing up to the show and they loved it. They loved working with me. Because of it. I made their lives easier. They knew exactly when they were going to get paid and things like that.

Speaker 2: 9:15

One other thing was I really protected the group, whoever I was working with or who was working for me or what have you. I made it very clear that I had their back, so it was a very safe place for them to work and to thrive and I made that priority even down to like, if there was a musician coming in, there was a sub and they didn't mesh well with the group, they were out. Like by the time they got in the car they were gone and I had somebody else lined up because I respected them and I wanted them to know that and, as a result, there was an equal level of loyalty there.

Speaker 1: 9:45

So many musicians that I've worked with struggle, I think, with that organizational aspect. As artists, there's always big ideas and you're trying to wrangle it all, like funnel it and turn it into something cohesive. That I think so much of the time musicians are living in this what if? World and like it's hard to kind of take that, grab those ideas out of the cloud, like put them on paper and go there. There's this thing, here. It's organized. This is what we're doing, this is how we're doing it, this is how we're approaching it.

Speaker 2: 10:11

What I love about artists and being an artist is it's like there's a part of us from childhood that we don't let go of and I feel like that's where our creativity kind of lives, having that imagination right. We still have imagination from our childhood and I think it's a beautiful thing. I also think what comes with that, as you were kind of describing earlier, is trying to wrangle all that in and it's like living in two worlds. It's a very spiritual kind of space that we live in you know when you kind of have to.

Speaker 1: 10:42

I always say that musicians have to, to some degree, entertain the notion that they have something special that nobody else has, and the world tends to kind of beat that attitude out of you. As a child, that's kind of what's nurtured and encouraged is you can be whatever you want to be when you grow up, and so you kind of have to hold on to that mentality, because if you don't, you just lose the ability to think out of the box and be creative and believe that other people are going to want to hear what you have to say. I think people get self-conscious. They create these things that go oh well, no, I really, really want to hear this, would they?

Speaker 1: 11:18

I'm fascinated, though, about the organizational aspect of this, because I think that is a very challenging thing for musicians is trying to solve the now, what conundrum? Musicians have this idea they write a song, they go to the studio, they make an awesome record, they make an awesome music video, and then they have these things, but then there's no plan for getting it out there. I even see this sometimes amongst professional musicians. They're really good at their craft, they've developed this thing that they're very good at, but then when it comes to marketing it, getting people to listen to it, putting it out there, breaking through the noise, there's a lot of overwhelm around that, and so the organizational aspect seems like that's kind of your superpower. That's how you thrive. So I'm curious what would you say is the most important lesson you've learned over your career that's helped you to take all these creative ideas, this free flow of thoughts, and channel it into a tangible plan.

Speaker 2: 12:17

Well, first and foremost, when we're moving and going somewhere, it's going to get messy, right, because we don't have all the answers. But what helps so much, and what has at least helped me, is understanding the importance of investing in myself, in my art and in my business. It makes a huge difference when I am stuck or if I just cannot figure it out. I don't spend a lot of time spending my wills. I will go find someone who is doing it well and I will ask them how can I get on your calendar and how much is it going to cost me? Because I would rather spend 15 minutes with someone and master something or figure something out than to spend six months. You see what I'm saying and I think that within our community that is not always encouraged or explained well, and I think part of it is because it doesn't start early on in our progress, like when we're young. We're encouraged to hone our skill, but everything else around that is just like no one ever talks about, until you actually decide to take your craft serious and you're like, whoa, there's a whole nother layer to this that I've got to figure out and it's overwhelming. I feel like also it's kind of mixed communication in terms of how to become successful as a musician, as an artist. Right In other lines of work and fields, there's expectation to go to college or to gain a mentor or go through a process is going to take several years. But when it comes to becoming an artist, there is often this perception that we can, like, skip these processes. And in reality, you never really skip the processes. Even if you write one song and you get signed off that first song, you're going to be forced to learn a lot in that transition. So I think that is very helpful and it makes a huge difference.

Speaker 2: 14:01

And, like I mentioned earlier, I just met with my business strategist and we went through and was like hey, I've been diagnosed with this illness. I want to continue to not only run my business but grow my business. What does this look like? What do I need to do? And she sent me off. I thought I had it all together. Let me tell you, matt, I planned out the meeting. I had my business planned together and had every element of the business sorted out in numbers and a marketing plan and all this stuff. And she went in there and she ripped it like this and I said, oh Lord, this is not what I was expecting, but I'm glad that she did. And I took a week and I said, okay, let me take a step back. I'm a mess right now as an artist, as an entrepreneur, as a business owner. Let me figure this out. But then I came back and I said, let's get to work and figure this out, and so, like I said, it's just about finding the right person, finding the right people and getting organized.

Speaker 2: 14:53

I think also, one element that's not discussed very often is coming up with a marketing plan before you release your music. I think, like we get so excited about our music because it's inside of us, as you mentioned, and we want to get it out to the world. We've got so much to share and to talk about that. We just need to get that out and release it to the world and there's so much internal pressure to do that. But then, once we do it, we're like, oh okay, what do I do now?

Speaker 2: 15:21

But what I highly recommend for artists for sure is, before you release that music, come up with at least a one page marketing strategy. One page, that's really all you need. One page of how you're going to launch it and then go in and redefine that marketing strategy, update it of what you're going to do every 30 days, just cycle it out. Of course you make tweaks and things like that, but just cycle it out and just keep doing that for at least a year. It doesn't have to be complicated, but meeting with people like yourself and other people that can help artists along that process is very useful.

Speaker 1: 15:51

You know, that's something that we have been talking a lot about on this show. Like every single person I've talked to says stop, you're excited, that's great. Make a plan, don't just release it. Come up with a plan. It kind of seems like that really is a recurring theme. As musicians, we have to kind of take a step back and go okay, this thing is done. Now what do we do? And so I'm kind of curious. I saw on your Music Meets the Boardroom website that you have in the membership section sort of a four phase plan that you've developed. So can you tell me a little bit about that four phase plan and how you, with Music Meets the Boardroom, help to solve that? Now, what Canundrum for artists?

Speaker 2: 16:32

There's four phases, as you mentioned. So there is really operating in your genius, and I'll break that down here in a minute Planning, strategic planning. What does that look like? Protecting your art and showing up, showing up and going full force.

Speaker 2: 16:45

The first phase, I think, is so important and I think it actually has a lot to do with why we get to the point where we don't know what the heck to do Right the now. What it's? Because we all have different reasons as to why we are pursuing music, and I think taking off this layer also will help those who really need to figure out if they're really serious about what they're doing. Because if you're really serious about what you want to do, you're going to sit down and you're going to make that plan, you're going to put the work in, you're going to put the money, you're going to do what you need to do, and so if you're not willing to do that, then the question is do you really want this and what is your true intentions? Also, getting into alignment is so important because I feel like that takes off a lot of the unnecessary stress and pressure, because when we're in alignment and we're in a space that we truly are meant to be. Things will start to attract to you, just naturally, opportunity, the right people at the right time, and stuff like that, which is great. So, figuring out how you should be using your talent and then also getting clear about who you want to connect with in that space right, because not everyone is a potential fan. That is why, as artists, we tend to spin our wheels a lot, because we put our music out there. We're just waiting for someone to like it and someone to be a fan. No, who do you want to be your fan? Where are they? What do they like? What triggers them? Are you making music that they're going to love, even though it's music that you love as well? Incorporating them in the process, thinking about them as you're making music, and then moving to the second phase, which is planning. Okay, you're clear about who you are, your intention, who your fan is.

Speaker 2: 18:19

Let's move into the planning process. How do I need to lay this out? How do I need to market it? Who do I need to work with? What should my brand be? All that good stuff.

Speaker 2: 18:28

And then moving into protecting it, because when you are building something, people can see its potential and the vision behind it and people are going to come and take it. Somebody's going to come and take it I mean not all the time, but you know what I mean Like there's people out there who don't have the best intention. That's where I'm going, and I just stitched an artist on TikTok, like a couple of days ago, where she partnered with a photographer seems harmless, right, and the photographer's intentions was not good, but she's an up and coming artist. She's not thinking anyone's targeting her or anything like that, but this photographer reached out to her and wanted to take pictures of her and all this stuff, and so it was really interesting to kind of go through the process of educating her about, hey, now you got to go back and protect this and fix this and take these actions. So that is really important and also, as artists, to never think that just because you're starting out that no one's paying attention to you, because they are.

Speaker 2: 19:22

I don't know if you heard the story of Lady A.

Speaker 1: 19:25

I'm not sure if I have Tell me.

Speaker 2: 19:26

Okay, lady Antebellum, lady A. And then there was a jazz artist who had the name stage name of Lady A for like over 20 years, and so Lady Antebellum went and trademarked her name. But once again it goes back to the conversation of hey, I'm an artist who's not super famous, no one's going to bother me or no one's going to see anything over here of value. No, you had a name that was worth millions of dollars and 20 years did not think to even trademark the name.

Speaker 1: 20:01

And then all that branding associated with it, all that 20 years of reputation. That's all just lost. That's rough, it's gone.

Speaker 2: 20:08

And what we have to realize is that whoever holds that trademark holds the money. So never assume that you don't have something of value. You do, and what we have as artists is called intangible assets. It's intellectual property. So the music that we make is an asset that holds value and we define what that perceived value is, and I think it's really important to understand that. But I think that having a clear plan, then you're able to focus on the connections, the experiences showing up, and you're not stressed about fixing things over here and trying to figure out what you're going to do next, because you already have your plan.

Speaker 1: 20:43

Sure, you're not just putting out fires as they pop up. You're strategically navigating the forest, exactly, very cool. Well, that's very clear, very concise, very to the point, and I think a lot of artists could benefit from at least familiarizing themselves with that structure, that four phase plan that you've laid out. So, as far as your niche, you've been talking about how, as an artist, it's important to find the specific people that you want to hear your message, your songs, your music, and you've definitely done that with your own business as well. There's a parallel there, so it looks like that you are specifically trying to help women in your situation. It sounds like Black women who are trying to take their music and turn it into a music career. So, as somebody who is not a black woman, I can't fathom some of the things that might be specific challenges within that niche. So enlighten me and the rest of us, people who are not black women, and help me to understand what are some of the unique challenges that your demographic faces that none of us are thinking about.

Speaker 2: 21:48

Yes, thank you for asking that question. Before I answer that question, I want to share a little bit about how I got to this point of working and just kind of like defining my niche and target a little bit. More is, when I started out I was kind of like how most even musicians are hey, everybody come on in, come on in. And along the way I realized that I wasn't talking to anybody. You know, I had a rainbow of people who I worked with, but not on the scale in which I wanted to work with. Like I wanted to work with more people. And once I realized that I had to niche down, and so I niche down, and I niche down and niche down.

Speaker 2: 22:24

And when I started to do more research as a black woman I feel horrible about the fact that I didn't even realize this there was like hardly any resources for women of color in general. There was very limited resources, but yet there was a need. And when I looked at kind of just like the musical influences of our world, I was like, well, this is interesting. Women of color play a big role, especially behind the scenes of music, but there's nothing that's nurturing this along the way. And I'm curious, and so I say you know what I really want?

Speaker 2: 22:55

To make a space for women of color to feel like they can grow and have that personal connection, because there's no place for that. So that's where we started to grow and to move. And it was a great move because our very first indie artist power conference was last year. The goal was to bring in 100 artists and I want to say about like 80% of the attendees were black women and I was like whoa, I personally didn't even have a clue that, like, people were dying for this space. And so here we are.

Speaker 1: 23:25

That's awesome that you've struck a chord with people. So what kind of specific things have you found that are missing, that people are craving, that you are now able to take and share with your community?

Speaker 2: 23:38

One is kind of going back to the conversation of finding people's space, finding their space right, even having the conversation around finding their audience. A lot of people talk about this but for some reason it does not hit, it does not get across. I don't know why, but what I did was I started to present it as scenarios, versus like this is why you do it. This is what you do. Instead, I use actual live scenarios. So let me give you an example right now why it's important to find your target audience and speak directly to your target audience. So just imagine going into a network, how we're conditioned socially, how to network with people. Right Before COVID, we just say, hey, there's a networking event, let me go to this event and see who I can meet. So we go in the room and we know that we're supposed to go in the room and meet everyone and gather as many business cards as we possibly can. But with the internet it's totally the opposite. It is walking into that networking room, finding someone that you want to connect with and experience every day and talking to them all night long In a very almost like selfish way and, as a result, other people in the room come over and listen in on the conversation and say, oh, you ski, I ski, too, we ski. And then there's people that walk by in the room and say, I don't ski, I like to fish, but you know you're not talking to me. Yep, I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to them. And you keep talking to this person all night long as the other people connect and what happens is we say, oh, I ski, but I like to fish too. And then when you turn back around, all the people that ski are gone because you didn't stay focused on them. So I kind of use scenarios like that to kind of help it to click.

Speaker 2: 25:22

I also feel like branding is really hard. I'm going to be honest with you. It took me a long time to figure out what this looks like myself, because I don't feel like anyone explains it well and there's layers to it, right, and I think that with Instagram, you just have that visual branding that's like forced in front of your face, and I feel like, as artists, we feel like, okay, this is what's important, this is what's important, but it's the language, it is what we say, it is the language we use on our websites, it's the color selection, it's all of that. It's what we wear, it's what we reinforce verbally. It's so many layers to that and no one really emphasizes it.

Speaker 1: 25:58

So for someone who is starting from scratch, they're leaving the studio, they've got their song, they know nothing about what comes next. What's your biggest piece of advice for someone in that position?

Speaker 2: 26:10

My number one piece of advice would be to find someone that they can work with to figure out a plan, which of course we've been talking about, because if they don't know anything, they're not even going to really know where to start, and they need to find someone who can tell them where to start, whether it's an artist who is a little bit more seasoned, or if it's working with some sort of industry coach or strategist or something like that. There's so much on the internet, like pretty much anything you need is on the internet. The problem is it's scattered everywhere so you can't decipher what the heck to pay attention to. First it kind of boggles your brain, so I think that is part of it, and then also it's trial and error. Sometimes you just got to get out there and say, okay, something's not working, let me figure this out and go from there. I want to mention something else, going back to kind of the same question and like where do you start? And things like that.

Speaker 2: 26:58

I remember when I released my very first song and I need help and I had an artist friend and I was able to pick up the phone and just call them and ask questions as I was going along and, thank God, this person actually knew what they were talking about very well and I still apply a lot of that stuff today. But what I learned is that even when I Googled something, it was scattered everywhere and there was no checklist. There was no checklist to tell you how to literally take the basic steps to release music. So I put together one of those checklists. I was like no one's done this and it's like 2022. So I created that and, believe it or not, it has like a 95% conversion rate, because people are like oh my gosh, you know, and I give it away for free because people need it and I also prefer to work with more seasoned artists, so I give that to them so they can kind of get their feet wet and then, once they grow to a certain point, they come back to me and they're ready for me.

Speaker 2: 27:49

But going back to your question, yes, once you've got your music, hold on to it and figure out what you need to do to market it and make it successful, and into finding what success looks like for you, because for some people it might be signing to a label, for some people it may be building a following and building something on your own. I think both of those kind of require slightly different things, slightly right. I'll be honest with you. I feel like getting a record deal probably now is a lot easier than what it used to be, probably. I don't know. I mean, what is your perspective on that? I guess in my head I'm thinking of the steps I would take if I wanted a record deal and I'm like this is what I would do.

Speaker 1: 28:24

Sure, and literally I don't know if I have the best perspective on that I'd say the majority of the artists I work with are going the indie route. They're doing everything on their own. I've had the pleasure of working with a few signed artists and I'd say the one thing that stands out to me about the artists who are signed versus the ones who are not, I've noticed the biggest difference seems like an attitude. It's kind of coming back to like what you said it's the people who have made it to the point where they are signed. Artists tend to I'm not going to say always, but tend to have more organizational skills. They have everything together. They're doing things daily. They're doing what you've said. They show up, they do it, and sometimes they might not know exactly what they're doing, but they show up and do it anyway. They say, okay, you know what. I need to get six music videos out by the end of the quarter. I'm going to create a plan, we're going to do it. We're going to make these, I'm going to release them one by one you know one a month and we're going to like, announce it on Instagram, and we're going to do five posts for each and we're going to roll it out this way.

Speaker 1: 29:22

So that's not everybody, but that tends to be the trend that I've noticed in the artists who are signed versus who are not. And the artists who are getting signed I've noticed especially at a small level are the ones who have spent the time grinding, as in the artist's first, to get there and eventually get the label's attention. And the label goes oh okay, they have their shit together, let's, you know, work with them, because they're obviously going to be an asset to us, and that's what the label wants is they want artists who have their ducks in a row. They don't want to just find somebody you know who can play a few songs really well on guitar in their bedroom and go, we're going to make you a star. They don't care, they want a good return on their investment. So they're going to find artists who have already established themselves, and that seems like it's true whether they're indie or not.

Speaker 1: 30:03

I want to circle back, though, to this idea that all these resources are available on the internet, but they're scattered, and it reminds me of like you ever watched any of Gordon Ramsay's shows. I don't think so. So Gordon Ramsay, he's like this famous British chef, and he had this show, hell's Kitchen oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I know who he is.

Speaker 1: 30:24

Yeah, yeah, you know you know, you know Gordon Ramsay. The other one I'm thinking of is Kitchen Nightmares, where he would go from kitchen to kitchen to kitchen, restaurant to restaurant, basically kind of like what was that show? The makeover home addition, what was it? Extreme makeover home addition. He basically doing that with restaurants, going to them and saying you guys suck, here's how you suck, here's how we're going to fix it. You know, here's the things you guys are good at. Let's focus on those and let's work on maybe fixing some of the weaknesses.

Speaker 1: 30:51

And one of the things I always noticed was a lot of restaurants that were struggling had these massive menus. You know, they'd have 100 items on their menu. And so Gordon would say no, you're going to have five, you're going to have 10 items on your menu. And his other pet peeve was no pictures, no pictures on the menu. Just tell people, just tell them what's on the menu.

Speaker 1: 31:09

And I think there's kind of a couple of different parallels here. As a restaurant, ie as an artist, if you're trying to do everything, you're not going to do anything. Well. But then on the receiving side of that, as an artist trying to find information, the internet's kind of like that menu, but it's got thousands of options. And so you show up and you're like I know the information's out there, I'm hungry for something, but I don't know how to choose. There's thousands of options. What do I do here? There's like five million appetizers, there's five million entrees. What order do I string them together in? What goes with what?

Speaker 1: 31:41

And so it is kind of important to have a resource like yourself for people to say, okay, here's your five entrees, five different paths you can go based on your position. Here's how we're going to structure a plan for you, here's how we're going to think about it, here's how we're going to satisfy your hunger and really boiling it down to the meat and potatoes of what's important for that artist. So I really admire that approach. I had another question for you. You are coming from a very unique background and perspective. So what do you see coming down the pipeline in the future of music marketing and music management, music administration, that nobody else can see yet?

Speaker 2: 32:18

I will say this for sure when the pandemic happened and everyone started running away from music or figuring out like I don't know what to do with it and kind of just like setting everything down, I was completely the opposite. I felt like this is the time to go in and to create what you want to see, because music right now has no shape. It's morphing into something else and no one has figured out what that looks like. So, whatever it is that you want to create in this space or you want to see that's not there, go and do it and stick to it, because you'll have space. So I will say that this is the time to really go in and take the risk of whatever that might be. I also think that we're going to see more people like myself because, of course, the labels I think it was in 2008 when they just kind of got rid of like artist development and that's where you're starting to see people like myself who are merging, and I think we will have a few people who are just, you know, at the pinnacle of that space. I think we will also see an increase in indie artists and I think we'll see less artists actually signing with labels, because artists can go viral on TikTok, which is where artists are starting to be birth. We're starting to see indie artists have mega hits. Now we're starting to see that. However, I mean, there's some back in stuff. The social media and the labels, of course, are partnering and you know they push certain things and stuff like that. We know that, but I would say that for sure. I would say that I think that we're also going to see more artists who are going to create more like businesses. I see that you know they're not just going to be just pushing their music, they're going to be using their music. A friend of mine called music a business card. Now, right, it's the business card to get the eyes, to get people in, and then they're going to start to expand, and I think artists are going to be more savvy with that as we move forward, and I hope so. Right, I want to see more artists walk away with more of what they've grown and created and not in the hands of other people. So I don't know what the music industry is going to look like in a few years, but I feel like it's going to be something different and really cool. And we have music NFTs, right and I've been learning a lot about that. I do think that is going to be a wave of the future. That's going to play a big part and I'm hoping more artists are getting into it, even if they feel like there's not a personal, like large audience for themselves, but learning that because I think we're going to be forced to kind of jump into that space. The labels are already investing in the space. We don't hear a lot about it but they are and they understand it's the future and I'm noticing even some bigger artists are struggling with what that looks like for them, that the music NFT space.

Speaker 2: 34:56

But like Kanye, didn't he just release? Was it a music NFT or no, it was his own like personal project. I kind of skimmed over that a little bit, but not too much. I have this like love hate relationship with Kanye. Like okay, let me share something with you that I've noticed Kanye does that I feel like as artists we can use.

Speaker 2: 35:15

We don't realize that he's not necessarily any different than any of us. What Kanye does well is whatever's inside of him. He does not feel a fear of public judgment. As artists we have these like wacky creative thoughts, like it's just naturally how we are, but we still have this space where we'll stop before we share it. Right, we're like I'm not going to share that, I'm not going to do that. But Kanye's different. He's like whatever I'm thinking flowing is going to come out and it's going to be. That's the only difference, that's the only thing that separates him and has really helped to make him as big as he is, cause he's super unapologetic about just being an authentic creative artist and letting it flow, regardless of the consequences. So I'm just putting that out there.

Speaker 1: 35:59

Yeah. So it seems like the biggest thing maybe for him that is different is just that mindset difference. At least, that's kind of what I'm picking up on from you is that it's perhaps that a lot of people have a mental block and they say, okay, I've made this thing, but I don't know. Exactly, whereas he says I made this thing here, you guys go, I don't care what you think Exactly, but at the same time, he probably does care deep down what people think of it.

Speaker 2: 36:22

I'm sure he does, but just like noticing some of the stuff he does, like I don't think he did this. He did some show where he was like in some sort of costume or something, like he was a block or like a you know a teddy bear or something, and you know people are like what the heck is going on. But I totally got it. I was like he's an artist in his head, he's laying down sleep and he sees himself in a mascot outfit, you know, dancing around and he wakes up the next. Let's do it and that's what he does. Yeah, and I think it helped me out with this a little bit, because I was talking to someone and we were talking about how a lot of the music today sounds so similar and believe it or not, I don't know if you heard the statistic, but about 80% of all of the music that's being streamed is older music.

Speaker 1: 37:08

I did hear that recently. Where did I? Oh, actually, a client of mine forwarded me an email about that. Yeah, I read an article, but I don't remember some of the details at this point. But yeah, I do remember hearing that information. Now, what do you make of that?

Speaker 2: 37:21

I think there's layers to it. One is, of course, you know the labels have their method, you know process of, you know making music, and if something works, why fix it or do something different? But then, as indie artists, I think that maybe that is influencing us right. We're not seeing on a big scale artists like taking greater risks besides, like Kanye and like a few other artists, and it's shaping us. We're afraid to create space for that and I, you know, as artists we got to get back to being a little weird you know what I'm saying. Like that's the fun part of being an artist. Of course, you know you got to be built for it, like Prince. Look at Prince. I remember his first interview. I don't know if you ever saw that, but he was like very an interesting soul. I mean right out the gate. But he was unapologetic about who he was in his art and as a result, he was one of the biggest artists of our time.

Speaker 1: 38:10

But you're absolutely right, you kind of have to be unapologetically you and that's a whole nother mindset to develop Just as a human being. It's hard to do that. It's kind of, like I said earlier, beaten out of us over a lifetime. It's easy to kind of fall into the trend of just doing what everyone else says. Oh, I remember what I was going to say.

Speaker 1: 38:28

I'm looking at hip hop, in particular the hip hop world here. I feel like it's very guilty of everybody sounding the same, but that's only because it's the most popular music genre right now. I'd say you look 20, 30 years ago, I guess, what's probably longer than that Now, like 40 years ago, when hair metal was the dominant genre, right, everyone sounded the same, they all rocked the tight skinny jeans, they all had a long hair, all doing the same thing. But now what I'm seeing is in hip hop artists go on beat stars. They buy at least to the same beat that 30 other artists have bought, they write their own verse to it, they record it, they put it out there. There's such a low threshold and barrier to entry. That sort of structure has created this environment where everybody's making the same sounding stuff because they're all getting the same resources. They're all using the same things.

Speaker 1: 39:17

You can go on beat stars and get a $20 beat, so then they record over that and then they release a mixtape of like 10 songs that are all just like leased beats. So it's an interesting approach, whereas I'd say 40 years ago if you wanted to release a record you had to spend some time, you had to like craft a record, you had to like write something on your guitar, your piano or whatever. Now you can just write some lyrics and go all right, what beat matches this? And then you just lay it down and that's that. Like a week later, boom, you've got a record out Very, very different, and I think it kind of encourages that sameness, that homogene. So I don't know what to make of that. It's just the thing I've noticed. I don't know if it's bad or if it's good, but I think maybe that's part of the reason people are listening to older music, because they're just hearing so much of the same stuff right now, because of the structure of how music is produced.

Speaker 2: 40:03

I think you're onto something as well. Before, it was crazy not to use live instrumentation. True, you could walk into a room and you don't have no live instruments. People are like, oh no, we're not doing that. Where's the drums, where's the bass? And even though you have someone playing an instrument, that instrument still tells a story, it still carries emotion. That's captured in the recording and, as you mentioned, because there is such a low barrier of entry, we can just go into our room and create something right at home with a machine, and it takes out that additional emotional layers that the older music carries. So that may have something to do with it as well.

Speaker 1: 40:43

Yeah, and not to say that electronically produced and music can't be emotional, because it certainly can. But when everyone's using the same sample packs and stringing together beats in the same sequence, it kind of does feel a bit homogenous. But I think that's a whole another conversation. We've been talking for a while now, so I had a couple kind of wrap up questions for you. What question do you wish I would have asked you, and how would you have answered it?

Speaker 2: 41:09

Honestly, I don't feel like there was any question that you should have asked me. I feel like you asked great questions, and one thing I want to thank you for is asking questions around who I serve and why I serve and opening up space for that conversation. That is so valuable and so important, and I just thank you for that. So I don't think there's anything that I would add. I wanna encourage your listeners to just keep listening, because you are amazing at what you do and you ask great questions and open up lots of conversation here, and continue to make art, but also invest in the business side of your craft, because that's what's gonna help you move forward. I think that more artists could be successful on a greater scale by simply doing that one additional step, and that is investing in the business side of their craft.

Speaker 1: 41:55

Beautifully spoken. I love it. Where can people find you online if they wanna connect with you? Check out your stuff.

Speaker 2: 42:01

Absolutely. They can find me at musicmeetstheborderumcom to find out more about my services and a little bit more about my background, and they can follow me on TikTok. I share tips every single day on TikTok that will help artists thrive and really go to the next level.

Speaker 1: 42:18

Awesome, well, so great to connect with you. Thank you for joining me. This was a great conversation and I hope to connect again, maybe a few months down the line on the show again.

Speaker 2: 42:28

Something like that Sounds like a plan.

Speaker 1: 42:29

All right thanks.

Speaker 2: 42:30

Thank you, Matt.

Speaker 1: 42:36

Thank you so much for tuning into episode three of After the Master a musician's guide. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. If you want to connect with LaToya, check out the links in the show notes on your podcast app For more behind the scenes and exclusive content. Follow us on Instagram at After the Master, have thoughts to share or a killer guest suggestion? Shoot an email to mattatafterthemastercom. You can also connect with me via voice message or text at 612-712-6708. Remember to hit the subscribe button to be notified when we release upcoming episodes. Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, please help me out by sharing it with a friend or leaving a five star review on your podcast app to tell the algorithm that our show is worth hearing. Either option takes less than a minute and it could potentially have a huge impact for an aspiring artist's music career. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, stay in tune with your dreams and I'll catch you on the flip side.